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Is there a lack of creativity in mugen these days?

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Oxocube
Filthy Fredo
xXEnchanter.ZuXx
Phant0mD
CancerManXIII
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CancerManXIII

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I look around on yourube and various forums to always see the "next big thing" but I never seem to get awestruck...
I see basically trhe same old projects. MVC2 edit of "this" character, cvsnk style "that" character.
anime character chibi this and that. The same overused kof character edits.
And dont get me started on screenpack and UI design.
Other than you Newagemugen savages, there really isnt anyone else out there pushing the bar that I can see or thinking out the square.
What is the reason or am I just wrong?


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Is there a lack of creativity in mugen these days? KwiHzMC

Phant0mD

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I could explain it like goldilocks and the 3 bears lol.

Think of cold porridge as awesome coding.
Think of hot porridge as awesome digital designwork.

To have something that is good in mugen requires a creator with a perfect balance of the 2.

The best designer may suck at coding or not know how to make practical creations for anyone to use.

The best coder only is interested in features, abilities, and gameplay - not anything audiovisual.

like a left brain vs right brain.

Also anyone can learn coding from reading the mugen docs, but graphic design and digital art is an extra-curricular skill which requires education/training and practice to be skilled at and is not related to mugen at all. So unless the porridge is a mix of the two, it will never be juuuuuust right and you are left with the same recycled creations from that ONE time someone made something combining a bit of the 2.


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xXEnchanter.ZuXx

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quite true.
Well it has always been monkey see and then monkey do in mugen.
Also it takes more effort to create something original from scratch compared to editing an already existing creation.
Every now and then you will have one super saiyan creator that releases a bunvh of awesome things and they become the new recycled template for the better.


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CancerManXIII

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Both of you definitely right in that regard.
What I don't understand is if it is deliberate or not.
But to me it just seems like there was way more creativity say 5 years ago compared to now.
Its still just MVC edits, CVS edits and anime characters and most stages (except you guys) are very lackluster and boring


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Is there a lack of creativity in mugen these days? KwiHzMC

Filthy Fredo

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Yes there is not so many creative people anymore because they cant use Mugen 1.1 properly
or they didnt learn enough about art and creation design.
Also if you dont have imagination cant create stuff very well that is original


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Oxocube

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I would have to agree with there being a lack of creativity in Mugen in the last couple of years.
I only became active again in Mugen in the last year or so after a Veeeeeery long hiatus, and I must say that there was tons more unique and bizarre creations going on say 9 years ago compared to what i seen this last year.
My idea on why it is like this is because most of the creators that laid the ground work down back in the old times on winmugen are retired for a long time now and the work they did has just been repeatedly edited and copied without anything new added.
Also I think alot of people just became unmotivated and distracted with the internet and social aspect of mugen that they dont go deep into the hours of night working hard on original stuff like we used to


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Shakti♥chu<3

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I used to love all the touhou edit characters that had moves from street fighter characters and stuff like that.
We dont see so many of those type of things anymore.
Probably because of anime we dont need to use imagination as much hehe

jo19sh92

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If I may throw in my two cents here...

...I personally wouldn't say there is a lack of creativity, but a lack of determination to try something new. Often times, we tend to stick with something we're already familiar with, rather than try something that isn't in our area of expertise. Its the logic of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I would say, with a lot of people in the MUGEN communities, especially a lot of the big name creators, the tend to stick with what they know, rather than what they've never done before, hence why... a lot of stuff, tends to never exist or never come to light.

Even though there is opportunity to try something new, and many of these people have the skill to do so, the problem is, whatever it is that is new that they are trying, they wouldn't really know how to do.

Cause here's the thing, people either go for:

1) Style

or

2) Accuracy

If they go for style, then often times, whatever they are making, has absolutely 0 accuracy to the original source material, thus they might as well have just stuck to something previous of that same style without having to tread too far from the accuracy.

If they go for accuracy, then these characters often fall short of what the "expectations" of the community around them wants. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure many of us have seen a game or two and were like "man, I would love to see X character inside MUGEN", but then if we think about it logically... most characters, with accuracy in mind, wouldn't last very long or be very enjoyable, unless they were specifically designed to be in a screenpack for other characters similar to them.

Remember, a good number of people who have MUGEN characters, tend to mix and match. Very few of us actually play the "full games" as they are intended to be, and often times, prefer to just take everything out of these screenpacks and full games, and shove it into our own.

Time and time again, I have only downloaded a full game, just to get all the characters from it, and nothing else. I can probably say, with a high certainty, that most people who play MUGEN or even watch MUGEN, have a roster which is a mish mash of everything they could find.

The only times we actually see something from games that are either not known, or obscure or certainly from a less popular perspective, is when it is then made by someone who's pretty terrible at making characters/stages/etc.

So I wouldn't say that there is no creativity left in MUGEN, but that most people in MUGEN, don't feel comfortable or feel like putting in the effort into something that either wouldn't work out very well and get a lot of negative scrutiny for not being the next POTS-style edit or whatever, and instead, just stick to what they know and keep themselves from falling into the same category as some other creators who've tried something new, failed miserably, and then got lots and lots of backlash.


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Vermilion Spy

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Some good points especially regarding style/accuracy and the creator's pursuit of the two.

jo19sh92 wrote:Very few of us actually play the "full games" as they are intended to be, and often times, prefer to just take everything out of these screenpacks and full games, and shove it into our own.

This point however could be debated.
Obviously it will depend on personal sphere of influence and what communities/languages one participates in.
10 years ago if someone told me that everyone at fightersguild, freeforall, infinity and any of 5/6 mainstay north american mugen forums, were following a particular trend or were of a particular opinion, I would assume it to be a mugen community majority statistic.

Now however I wouldn't even call it a tip of the Mugen iceberg in terms of majority trends/fanbase.
You will find that the overall community approach to fullgames and how they are used, will vary widely per sub-community, per server, per country.
Gone are the days where the Mugen community = 6 popular Mugen websites.
Now there are entire discord servers dedicated purely to singular fullgame projects and parsec matchmaking.
As for compilations, many south american and Indian Fangame sites have entire communities built around playing compilations and fullgames.
Those communities approach mugen the same way people approach emulators and just go for plug & play rather than learn and modify.
Then there's the Android Mugen communities which are a whole other sub-community more among younger users but also heavily focused mainly on fullgames.


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Shakti♥chu<3

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Vermilion Spy wrote:
Gone are the days where the Mugen community = 6 popular Mugen websites.
Now there are entire discord servers dedicated purely to singular fullgame projects and parsec matchmaking.

yeeeah that is so true. Before I ran away from discord because i had too many chat apps bleeping at my while trying to study, i was in quite a few mugen discords just to be a lookie loo.
There really are so many communities and friend groups that only use discord now. so i guess you are right about that.
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DarkZemX

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Lol holy crap this is a great discussion!  Is there a lack of creativity in mugen these days? 1f600

I'd like to add in as someone who has tried building multiple mugen rosters, Failing due to stability issues and lack of knowledge but still having a few decent builds in time and keeping my eyes on the community for some time now. I must say its pretty easy to get lost in the building phase of mugen when you first Learn about mugen, Some will go after full games but then Try making their own "Perfect Build" But in all that time of character and stage searching there isnt any character Creating or stage creating unless the person is extremely eager i suppose.

I've only started contributing to the community in the process of going for the perfect build years(Ages!) later after slowly getting an understanding of some mugen coding, So in a way you could say its from having almost everything that i want in a build pushing me to fine tune more things or even create because after a while of searching you realize you just might have to do it yourself lol. And thats thanks to all the previous creators and editors putting SOO much different options out on the web! But not everyone will will reach this conclusion of Do it yourself. Who knows though maybe this will strike more creativity in the mugen community because of the giant surplus of character variations and stages.

Last thing to note is time consumption, Especially with the current world events. Its kinda why i feel like mugen might see a decrease in creativity until all the Crazy shit calms down But tbh last year definitely showed me otherwise with all the other cool character and stage releases. But much respect to the Creators and Editors for their efforts and time!

CancerManXIII

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some great pointers raised here boys and gals.
I think what josh92 (however u spell it) mentioned about people aiming for accuracy or a set style has much to do with it.
But there is a sheeple people aspect too.
Mugen is so multi-faceted and is enjoyed by all age groups young and old so how people use it and what they make for it I guess is limited to their scope of influence.
If you never played old classics from the 2D arcade era when fighting games reigned supreme, you wont be able to relate to street fighter or older obscure neo geo stuff.
and if you are a teenager or early 20s and were born after that era died and missed the early mugen days, you may only know about anime and naruto so that will be your sphere of creativity you base your mugen experiences on


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Is there a lack of creativity in mugen these days? KwiHzMC

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DarkZemX

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CancerManXIII wrote:some great pointers raised here boys and gals.
I think what josh92 (however u spell it) mentioned about people aiming for accuracy or a set style has much to do with it.
But there is a sheeple people aspect too.
Mugen is so multi-faceted and is enjoyed by all age groups young and old so how people use it and what they make for it I guess is limited to their scope of influence.
If you never played old classics from the 2D arcade era when fighting games reigned supreme, you wont be able to relate to street fighter or older obscure neo geo stuff.
and if you are a teenager or early 20s and were born after that era died and missed the early mugen days, you may only know about anime and naruto so that will be your sphere of creativity you base your mugen experiences on

Yeah i Agree with the style and accuracy part as well as what you just mentioned. I've seen plenty of posts go unnoticed or get some heat for accuracy and i guess the look or size of the character. Some people can be really rude on their feedback lol FrFr the internet got No chill lol even in the mugen Community. But i would hope that those creators understand that additional to the feedback that people are really picky and are choosing characters/stages specifically for their builds so not every version or creation fits with everyone!

And yeah dude i think Influence is a big part of it, I've grown up with Mugen and KOF/SNK and thats a big part of why im touching up on retro stages! They deserve some love! Lol

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